1 00:00:23,259 --> 00:00:09,080 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:29,330 --> 00:00:27,109 yes it's the skeptic zonal very last 3 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:29,340 skipping zone for 2011 Richard Saunders 4 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:32,690 here coming to you from Sydney Australia 5 00:00:40,729 --> 00:00:36,450 it's New Years Eve New Year's Eve and 6 00:00:42,889 --> 00:00:40,739 this is episode number 167 we're going 7 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:42,899 to be speaking on this episode with 8 00:00:48,110 --> 00:00:45,450 Daniel Rafael and Phil Kent from the 9 00:00:50,540 --> 00:00:48,120 stop the avian facebook group stop the 10 00:00:53,990 --> 00:00:50,550 Australian vaccination Network the 11 00:00:56,060 --> 00:00:54,000 vaccination 10 work ah we'll never get 12 00:00:58,790 --> 00:00:56,070 over the fact that they call themselves 13 00:01:01,819 --> 00:00:58,800 the vaccination Network reminds me of 14 00:01:04,690 --> 00:01:01,829 our 1984 haven't read that for a long 15 00:01:08,899 --> 00:01:04,700 time things like the ministry for 16 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:08,909 information were stifling information 17 00:01:12,740 --> 00:01:10,530 and so on and so on so the Australian 18 00:01:14,810 --> 00:01:12,750 vaccination group aren't interested in 19 00:01:18,950 --> 00:01:14,820 vaccination they're interested in you 20 00:01:21,649 --> 00:01:18,960 not vaccinating your children against 21 00:01:24,109 --> 00:01:21,659 deadly diseases you've heard it all 22 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:24,119 before on the skeptic zone we're going 23 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:25,650 to be talking to daniel and phil from 24 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:28,530 may stop the avian group about the 25 00:01:33,380 --> 00:01:30,450 recent activities up in queensland at 26 00:01:35,990 --> 00:01:33,390 the Woodford Folk Festival where the 27 00:01:40,569 --> 00:01:36,000 group charted a light airplane to fly 28 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:40,579 around above the festival with a banner 29 00:01:46,490 --> 00:01:43,290 trailing a banner that said vaccination 30 00:01:49,190 --> 00:01:46,500 saves lives I wish I could have been 31 00:01:52,819 --> 00:01:49,200 there to see that firsthand hear all 32 00:01:56,179 --> 00:01:52,829 about it coming up shortly after that we 33 00:01:58,209 --> 00:01:56,189 have dr. Reggie reports now she's going 34 00:02:03,230 --> 00:01:58,219 to be speaking to a colleague of hers 35 00:02:06,230 --> 00:02:03,240 dr. Coren stalky at the heart Research 36 00:02:09,710 --> 00:02:06,240 Institute here in Sydney about his 37 00:02:12,949 --> 00:02:09,720 research into why sugar is good for your 38 00:02:16,970 --> 00:02:12,959 heart they and why your breath can 39 00:02:19,970 --> 00:02:16,980 really stink and what's Brazil nuts got 40 00:02:22,430 --> 00:02:19,980 to do with it but of a mixed bag dr. 41 00:02:26,660 --> 00:02:22,440 Reggie that's coming up later in the 42 00:02:29,510 --> 00:02:26,670 show and of course if you go to www pics 43 00:02:32,210 --> 00:02:29,520 on TV you can look at the show notes 44 00:02:34,210 --> 00:02:32,220 with links to the various things will be 45 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:34,220 discussing on today's show including 46 00:02:39,740 --> 00:02:36,810 including that interesting work into 47 00:02:42,619 --> 00:02:39,750 heart research now I'm very excited 48 00:02:45,380 --> 00:02:42,629 folks very excited not only because it's 49 00:02:48,350 --> 00:02:45,390 New Years Eve I'm excited because very 50 00:02:50,809 --> 00:02:48,360 early next year next week in fact dr. 51 00:02:54,259 --> 00:02:50,819 Rachel and i'll be heading for those ABC 52 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:54,269 Studios here in Sydney to join Maynard 53 00:03:00,589 --> 00:02:57,090 growl Maynard for a new program coming 54 00:03:03,920 --> 00:03:00,599 up called the dirty disbelievers and the 55 00:03:05,930 --> 00:03:03,930 blurb says every weekend 6pm starting 56 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:05,940 the seventh of January across Australia 57 00:03:11,470 --> 00:03:08,250 on ABC local radio digital radio and 58 00:03:16,009 --> 00:03:11,480 online Maynard will be hosting the dirty 59 00:03:19,309 --> 00:03:16,019 disbelievers radio show look out for 60 00:03:21,949 --> 00:03:19,319 special guests dr. Richie and myself 61 00:03:25,130 --> 00:03:21,959 Richard Saunders amongst others for more 62 00:03:28,100 --> 00:03:25,140 information just go to facebook and 63 00:03:32,210 --> 00:03:28,110 search for dirty disbelievers or check 64 00:03:35,390 --> 00:03:32,220 out the link at skeptic zone TV can't 65 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:35,400 wait for that what fun that will be but 66 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:37,170 let's not wait anymore I know you've got 67 00:03:43,580 --> 00:03:40,250 New Year's Eve parties to go to I 68 00:03:46,309 --> 00:03:43,590 haven't no no I haven't got a new year's 69 00:03:48,770 --> 00:03:46,319 eve party to go to I think I'll just sit 70 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:48,780 back on my favorite couch and watch a 71 00:03:56,630 --> 00:03:53,010 good DVD have a cup of tea and then go 72 00:03:58,970 --> 00:03:56,640 to bed or something like that but before 73 00:04:22,970 --> 00:03:58,980 that happens let's all listen to the 74 00:04:22,980 --> 00:04:39,159 you 75 00:04:45,850 --> 00:04:43,779 oh yes and those delightful notes 76 00:04:48,580 --> 00:04:45,860 walking across the internet of the 77 00:04:50,230 --> 00:04:48,590 Nutcracker The Nutcracker an interesting 78 00:04:52,989 --> 00:04:50,240 choice of music to introduce this 79 00:04:55,869 --> 00:04:52,999 segment about the activities of the stop 80 00:04:58,149 --> 00:04:55,879 Australian vaccination network group i'd 81 00:05:01,929 --> 00:04:58,159 like to welcome to the show Daniel 82 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:01,939 Rafael hello Daniel I Richard I and Phil 83 00:05:07,809 --> 00:05:05,210 Kent hello Phil Hawaii I'm doing really 84 00:05:10,959 --> 00:05:07,819 well I was tickled pink when I found out 85 00:05:13,719 --> 00:05:10,969 just the other day what was going on up 86 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:13,729 there at the Woodford Folk Festival and 87 00:05:18,390 --> 00:05:16,610 as I was just having quick chat chat to 88 00:05:21,369 --> 00:05:18,400 you before the interview started I 89 00:05:22,929 --> 00:05:21,379 little old me simply the vice president 90 00:05:24,700 --> 00:05:22,939 of Australian skeptics been on the 91 00:05:28,989 --> 00:05:24,710 committee for ten years out and about 92 00:05:31,059 --> 00:05:28,999 had no clue about the fun and games that 93 00:05:33,459 --> 00:05:31,069 was to unfold at the Woodford Folk 94 00:05:34,899 --> 00:05:33,469 Festival we're going to get to that 95 00:05:36,879 --> 00:05:34,909 pretty soon we're going to talk about 96 00:05:40,899 --> 00:05:36,889 that soon but Daniel from your point of 97 00:05:44,559 --> 00:05:40,909 view let's discuss the formation and the 98 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:44,569 reasons behind the stop the avian or 99 00:05:49,869 --> 00:05:46,849 stop the Australian vaccination network 100 00:05:51,790 --> 00:05:49,879 group which is really a Facebook group 101 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:51,800 isn't it is here I mean we're not 102 00:05:56,860 --> 00:05:55,370 incorporated we're not our earlier we're 103 00:06:00,730 --> 00:05:56,870 not really anything except a collection 104 00:06:03,899 --> 00:06:00,740 of concerned citizens it started back in 105 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:03,909 two thousand nine you may recall a 106 00:06:11,010 --> 00:06:07,250 channel seven did a segment on the 107 00:06:13,149 --> 00:06:11,020 sunday night program which was a 108 00:06:15,820 --> 00:06:13,159 actually really good piece on 109 00:06:17,559 --> 00:06:15,830 vaccinations and as it was a really good 110 00:06:21,869 --> 00:06:17,569 piece on vaccinations Merrill dori was 111 00:06:25,450 --> 00:06:21,879 not happy with it and contacted the the 112 00:06:27,999 --> 00:06:25,460 studio and wanted to have a community 113 00:06:29,769 --> 00:06:28,009 forum type ah deal and that's what she 114 00:06:32,980 --> 00:06:29,779 got the very next week and I went along 115 00:06:35,050 --> 00:06:32,990 to that along with dr. H E and me and 116 00:06:37,389 --> 00:06:35,060 you and rat bags and there were a couple 117 00:06:41,969 --> 00:06:37,399 of others there and we sat in the 118 00:06:46,989 --> 00:06:41,979 audience and and just listen to her 119 00:06:49,959 --> 00:06:46,999 speak and I I mean with what she was 120 00:06:52,389 --> 00:06:49,969 saying I was sitting there thinking how 121 00:06:52,930 --> 00:06:52,399 has how has she got so much credence in 122 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:52,940 the media 123 00:06:59,830 --> 00:06:57,050 don't understand it I mean Mike Monroe 124 00:07:00,940 --> 00:06:59,840 who was some who was comparing that the 125 00:07:03,820 --> 00:07:00,950 whole thing was it was actually pretty 126 00:07:06,930 --> 00:07:03,830 good at taking it a task but I feel she 127 00:07:12,970 --> 00:07:06,940 got a little bit too much free time and 128 00:07:14,830 --> 00:07:12,980 I went home that day really determined 129 00:07:16,540 --> 00:07:14,840 to do something and I just I didn't know 130 00:07:18,390 --> 00:07:16,550 what to do so I just started a Facebook 131 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:18,400 group that was about the limit of my 132 00:07:24,130 --> 00:07:21,290 resources at the time and it just kind 133 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:24,140 of went from there yes well I will 134 00:07:28,660 --> 00:07:26,450 remember being in the studio audience 135 00:07:30,310 --> 00:07:28,670 for that taping was a sort of the second 136 00:07:33,340 --> 00:07:30,320 part of the channel seven story on 137 00:07:35,500 --> 00:07:33,350 vaccinations yeah and we were sort of 138 00:07:38,260 --> 00:07:35,510 all on one side and Meryl Dory and her 139 00:07:40,090 --> 00:07:38,270 friends or flying monkeys as we call 140 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:40,100 them were sort of in there on the other 141 00:07:47,290 --> 00:07:44,090 side and what it's a classic because 142 00:07:48,970 --> 00:07:47,300 it's from that time that show that we 143 00:07:51,370 --> 00:07:48,980 get the wonderful quote from merrill 144 00:07:54,010 --> 00:07:51,380 dory I have a brain to or something like 145 00:07:59,890 --> 00:07:54,020 that and I'd like to rip up that if I 146 00:08:02,260 --> 00:07:59,900 may no I say my cat has a brain and a 147 00:08:04,659 --> 00:08:02,270 while back my cat managed to knock out 148 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:04,669 the power to the entire house by 149 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:08,090 peddling into a powerpoint now is she 150 00:08:16,150 --> 00:08:10,370 qualified then to give advice on 151 00:08:19,690 --> 00:08:16,160 vaccinations so it would seem Valley all 152 00:08:21,820 --> 00:08:19,700 you need is it as a brain well that's 153 00:08:24,130 --> 00:08:21,830 what you said I would what did she also 154 00:08:25,570 --> 00:08:24,140 said she'd be researching at phipps so 155 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:25,580 many years or something like that where 156 00:08:30,700 --> 00:08:29,090 she had a brain yeah yeah well I mean we 157 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:30,710 could probably have another whole 158 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:35,650 episode devoted to her particular 159 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:38,210 psychological profile and why do I have 160 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:39,650 a song from The Wizard of Oz going 161 00:08:47,079 --> 00:08:43,610 through my head right yes i'll try not 162 00:08:50,829 --> 00:08:47,089 to mention flying monkey me and and how 163 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:50,839 people like Meryl can Meryl Dori can be 164 00:08:58,000 --> 00:08:55,130 so bleeded one might one might say do 165 00:09:02,110 --> 00:08:58,010 you think that she truly is sees herself 166 00:09:04,690 --> 00:09:02,120 as the the leader of a quest yes yeah um 167 00:09:07,690 --> 00:09:04,700 I think it's why she she has 168 00:09:13,090 --> 00:09:07,700 a hard time admitting when she's 169 00:09:17,050 --> 00:09:13,100 blatantly wrong it's hard for me to sort 170 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:17,060 of think in the same way as her I can't 171 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:25,370 imagine being so deluded by your own way 172 00:09:30,330 --> 00:09:27,050 of thinking that you can't let anything 173 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:30,340 else in yeah and it does it is like a 174 00:09:35,050 --> 00:09:33,050 religious zeal or really it is yes quest 175 00:09:36,790 --> 00:09:35,060 isn't that the term true believer comes 176 00:09:39,220 --> 00:09:36,800 you know you know comes into it i think 177 00:09:40,900 --> 00:09:39,230 and she's she certainly believes 178 00:09:42,670 --> 00:09:40,910 everything she says and she's got people 179 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:42,680 who believe everything that she says 180 00:09:49,930 --> 00:09:46,490 even even when it's contradicted timing 181 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:49,940 on again yeah yeah i mean that's the 182 00:09:54,730 --> 00:09:52,010 mean me not being qualified to talk 183 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:54,740 about that sort of state i mean although 184 00:09:59,140 --> 00:09:56,810 we observe this of course in the 185 00:10:02,080 --> 00:09:59,150 skeptics many times we a true believers 186 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:02,090 all of all flavors that's how it appears 187 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:03,530 to me but it would be interesting to get 188 00:10:09,550 --> 00:10:07,250 some a professional to give it would be 189 00:10:11,170 --> 00:10:09,560 in what area interesting i'd like to see 190 00:10:13,210 --> 00:10:11,180 that actually but i've heard some 191 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:13,220 opinions but they're not something we 192 00:10:20,500 --> 00:10:16,010 can share on the air mezzaluna there's a 193 00:10:22,420 --> 00:10:20,510 line num from Fawlty Towers that some I 194 00:10:24,910 --> 00:10:22,430 like that the in the episode called the 195 00:10:26,470 --> 00:10:24,920 psychiatrists yeah um and the 196 00:10:29,500 --> 00:10:26,480 psychiatrist is walking down the stairs 197 00:10:31,780 --> 00:10:29,510 after after you know seeing Basil Fawlty 198 00:10:34,450 --> 00:10:31,790 up to his old tricks and says to his 199 00:10:36,730 --> 00:10:34,460 wife there's enough material there for 200 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:36,740 an entire conference 201 00:10:45,610 --> 00:10:43,730 I will I remember that line years I 202 00:10:49,210 --> 00:10:45,620 remember that line that's very good and 203 00:10:51,070 --> 00:10:49,220 well we might dwell on this topic for a 204 00:10:52,570 --> 00:10:51,080 moment because then there's the other 205 00:10:54,340 --> 00:10:52,580 part to it of course which is her 206 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:54,350 minions the flying monkey yes who 207 00:11:00,070 --> 00:10:58,010 believe this which are there come rain 208 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:00,080 hail or shine and praise her endlessly 209 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:02,450 on on the intertubes yeah it really is a 210 00:11:09,790 --> 00:11:06,970 bit of a case that isn't it is it's some 211 00:11:11,290 --> 00:11:09,800 we've likened to the avian to a cult for 212 00:11:13,980 --> 00:11:11,300 a long time and we've actually gone 213 00:11:18,490 --> 00:11:13,990 through the the checklist of a cult and 214 00:11:21,970 --> 00:11:18,500 the avian ticks every box for it yeah 215 00:11:25,150 --> 00:11:21,980 it's not it can't be really really can't 216 00:11:27,790 --> 00:11:25,160 be called anything else it's fascinating 217 00:11:29,350 --> 00:11:27,800 and of course one of the things i find 218 00:11:31,329 --> 00:11:29,360 endlessly interesting in this whole 219 00:11:35,370 --> 00:11:31,339 business is the way that the other side 220 00:11:39,430 --> 00:11:35,380 for lack of a better term will use 221 00:11:41,350 --> 00:11:39,440 things against us criticisms one of them 222 00:11:43,150 --> 00:11:41,360 is of course that we are all sheeple and 223 00:11:45,940 --> 00:11:43,160 we just follow the cult leader without 224 00:11:47,380 --> 00:11:45,950 thinking if i can tell you friends if 225 00:11:49,300 --> 00:11:47,390 you could see me now interviewing you 226 00:11:51,490 --> 00:11:49,310 too you can't see me but i'm i'm not 227 00:11:53,290 --> 00:11:51,500 very i'm not very glamorous it's a hot 228 00:11:54,699 --> 00:11:53,300 day and i don't care i'm wearing at eric 229 00:11:58,240 --> 00:11:54,709 track attacks that are torn at the back 230 00:12:01,480 --> 00:11:58,250 there you go so what I'm trying what I'm 231 00:12:03,460 --> 00:12:01,490 trying to say is we all are very pleased 232 00:12:05,290 --> 00:12:03,470 if people listen to what we have to say 233 00:12:07,569 --> 00:12:05,300 but heavens above we're just as human as 234 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:07,579 anybody else and we only we do our best 235 00:12:12,610 --> 00:12:10,730 to be on the right the right course but 236 00:12:15,370 --> 00:12:12,620 I really get the impression that her 237 00:12:17,710 --> 00:12:15,380 true believers really think she is the 238 00:12:20,980 --> 00:12:17,720 personification of everything light and 239 00:12:25,060 --> 00:12:20,990 good yeah it day too and in fact they 240 00:12:26,620 --> 00:12:25,070 say um I'm just trying to fight it now 241 00:12:29,860 --> 00:12:26,630 actually that though she actually did 242 00:12:32,949 --> 00:12:29,870 say something yesterday which really 243 00:12:35,199 --> 00:12:32,959 knocked it on the head oh I can actually 244 00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:35,209 I can actually probably paraphrase it 245 00:12:41,079 --> 00:12:38,690 was so nice to look down on all of you 246 00:12:43,350 --> 00:12:41,089 and see your smiling faces looking back 247 00:12:49,019 --> 00:12:43,360 up oh yeah 248 00:12:53,610 --> 00:12:49,029 oh yeah I just get this this image of of 249 00:12:55,710 --> 00:12:53,620 Kim Jung Merrill you know it's the old 250 00:12:57,389 --> 00:12:55,720 joke about the monkeys on the tree yeah 251 00:13:00,170 --> 00:12:57,399 top monkeys look down see nothin but 252 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:00,180 smilin faces the bottom Loki's look up 253 00:13:05,970 --> 00:13:02,410 Tommy else well there we are we're 254 00:13:08,310 --> 00:13:05,980 bringing monkeys back into it again they 255 00:13:10,759 --> 00:13:08,320 just won't go go away anyway let's get 256 00:13:12,900 --> 00:13:10,769 back to the SAV and list of this 257 00:13:15,180 --> 00:13:12,910 Australian vaccination network what a 258 00:13:17,310 --> 00:13:15,190 mouthful that is SAV ends much easier to 259 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:17,320 say and of course we encourage all our 260 00:13:24,180 --> 00:13:20,410 listeners to run to facebook.com slash 261 00:13:25,769 --> 00:13:24,190 stop a vm that's correct yep and then 262 00:13:28,530 --> 00:13:25,779 they can find out much more about the 263 00:13:30,949 --> 00:13:28,540 activities and join lincoln join up 264 00:13:33,509 --> 00:13:30,959 that's the way to do it now because 265 00:13:37,079 --> 00:13:33,519 bringing all these things together we 266 00:13:39,300 --> 00:13:37,089 have the situation and as we record this 267 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:39,310 on friday evening Meryl is at the 268 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:42,010 Woodford Folk Festival speaking but the 269 00:13:46,139 --> 00:13:44,170 thing that we can discuss was 270 00:13:49,470 --> 00:13:46,149 yesterday's activities which is thursday 271 00:13:51,930 --> 00:13:49,480 here in australia where Meryl was going 272 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:51,940 to have the microphone to herself to 273 00:14:00,990 --> 00:13:57,130 talk about autism and due to community 274 00:14:05,970 --> 00:14:01,000 pressure centered with s avian and their 275 00:14:08,910 --> 00:14:05,980 activities of sav n we got a much better 276 00:14:10,199 --> 00:14:08,920 outcome I mean we probably better than 277 00:14:12,180 --> 00:14:10,209 we should have hoped for it was just 278 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:12,190 fantastic where she was relegated to 279 00:14:18,470 --> 00:14:15,130 simply taking part in a forum which had 280 00:14:20,730 --> 00:14:18,480 real experts on it who were there to 281 00:14:24,300 --> 00:14:20,740 advocate to the crowd the benefits of 282 00:14:26,610 --> 00:14:24,310 vaccination yeah I mean it was a better 283 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:26,620 outcome but it would have been 284 00:14:31,710 --> 00:14:28,690 preferable if they just candor really 285 00:14:35,790 --> 00:14:31,720 and I my argument has always been she 286 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:35,800 has she has no place in a on a stage 287 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:39,370 with an immunologist there is there is 288 00:14:45,569 --> 00:14:43,050 absolutely no reason to have Meryl Dory 289 00:14:49,319 --> 00:14:45,579 anywhere near for him like that she's 290 00:14:52,290 --> 00:14:49,329 not qualified at all to speak about 291 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:52,300 vaccines know what isn't she Australia's 292 00:14:57,130 --> 00:14:54,010 leading vaccination expert 293 00:15:01,060 --> 00:14:57,140 right I've only in her own mind Rick 294 00:15:02,410 --> 00:15:01,070 well I of course i agree with you 295 00:15:05,199 --> 00:15:02,420 of course there's absolutely no place 296 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:05,209 for her to speak at these events because 297 00:15:12,540 --> 00:15:08,690 it as the government have pointed out 298 00:15:15,490 --> 00:15:12,550 what she says is incorrect it's wrong 299 00:15:16,990 --> 00:15:15,500 however given the fact that it was a 300 00:15:19,990 --> 00:15:17,000 pretty good luck lee hood she was going 301 00:15:22,300 --> 00:15:20,000 to speak at least we got a decent 302 00:15:24,610 --> 00:15:22,310 outcome and let's take our victories 303 00:15:27,490 --> 00:15:24,620 when we can get them about tribe so 304 00:15:28,900 --> 00:15:27,500 there she was as part of a an overall 305 00:15:30,310 --> 00:15:28,910 panel infill you might be able to take 306 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:30,320 up the story here because you were there 307 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:32,330 you were our man on the spot or when I 308 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:34,490 say oh I mean our site not the skeptics 309 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:36,370 of course because we didn't bloody no 310 00:15:41,350 --> 00:15:38,690 that's wrong and we didn't bloody know 311 00:15:43,210 --> 00:15:41,360 what was going to happen which was is it 312 00:15:46,449 --> 00:15:43,220 a bird as if the plane oh it is a plane 313 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:46,459 getting so if you could fill us in on 314 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:50,930 this wonderful flyby well unknown to 315 00:15:57,430 --> 00:15:54,050 just about everybody we had a little 316 00:15:59,650 --> 00:15:57,440 plane tying a nice big banner over would 317 00:16:02,290 --> 00:15:59,660 fridge for 2 l's half hour before and 318 00:16:04,569 --> 00:16:02,300 half hour after talk and the for the air 319 00:16:08,019 --> 00:16:04,579 in the middle which said vaccination 320 00:16:10,769 --> 00:16:08,029 saves lives so he said that was towing a 321 00:16:13,900 --> 00:16:10,779 big banner right that's right yeah yeah 322 00:16:16,540 --> 00:16:13,910 I've seen a couple of snapshots of it 323 00:16:21,060 --> 00:16:16,550 wow that's fantastic and I also know 324 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:21,070 that Meryl Dory saw that pretty early on 325 00:16:25,900 --> 00:16:24,050 if the reaction on stage was priceless 326 00:16:28,470 --> 00:16:25,910 she actually thanked the Australians get 327 00:16:33,220 --> 00:16:28,480 fixed for the free advertising 328 00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:33,230 unbelievable it's Australian skeptics 329 00:16:38,860 --> 00:16:36,560 have nothing to do with it well not only 330 00:16:40,750 --> 00:16:38,870 of course of course you're right we 331 00:16:42,970 --> 00:16:40,760 didn't speaking on behalf of Australian 332 00:16:46,540 --> 00:16:42,980 skeptics back no clue was going to 333 00:16:48,180 --> 00:16:46,550 happen and but what really tickles me is 334 00:16:50,260 --> 00:16:48,190 that she's trying this old trick of 335 00:16:53,010 --> 00:16:50,270 thanking the opposition for free 336 00:16:56,199 --> 00:16:53,020 publicity where the free publicity was 337 00:16:57,940 --> 00:16:56,209 unequivocally saying vaccinate whatever 338 00:17:01,269 --> 00:16:57,950 you do you know vaccinations a really 339 00:17:03,189 --> 00:17:01,279 good thing so it was a pathetic attempt 340 00:17:05,049 --> 00:17:03,199 to her to try and turn the tables you 341 00:17:07,549 --> 00:17:05,059 know that's wrong yeah they got our 342 00:17:09,169 --> 00:17:07,559 message across very clearly to 343 00:17:11,179 --> 00:17:09,179 body that was there was pointing up 344 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:11,189 looking and everybody had their camera's 345 00:17:16,489 --> 00:17:14,610 out I was a great spectacle now I felt 346 00:17:18,350 --> 00:17:16,499 being being on the spot is that where 347 00:17:20,299 --> 00:17:18,360 you were in the audience for the talks I 348 00:17:22,759 --> 00:17:20,309 was I had to duck out for a little bit 349 00:17:26,289 --> 00:17:22,769 so I didn't see it all but yeah yes I 350 00:17:29,419 --> 00:17:26,299 got to see the start and the finish and 351 00:17:30,950 --> 00:17:29,429 the question time and how did that go 352 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:30,960 how do you think that when do you think 353 00:17:38,810 --> 00:17:33,690 it was it was a good pro vaccination all 354 00:17:41,989 --> 00:17:38,820 over and was the Meryl actually stumble 355 00:17:44,029 --> 00:17:41,999 or did she tried to her old tricks uh 356 00:17:46,820 --> 00:17:44,039 well she she tried pretty much all her 357 00:17:50,060 --> 00:17:46,830 usual tricks she didn't really stumble I 358 00:17:52,220 --> 00:17:50,070 wouldn't say there's a fair bit of and 359 00:17:55,460 --> 00:17:52,230 evac supporting the crowd to start with 360 00:17:58,430 --> 00:17:55,470 but then there was quite a lot of provac 361 00:18:00,440 --> 00:17:58,440 support in the crowded as well and in 362 00:18:01,820 --> 00:18:00,450 fact after that the show is over and 363 00:18:04,039 --> 00:18:01,830 were handing out leaflets and talking to 364 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:04,049 everybody we've got nothing but positive 365 00:18:08,570 --> 00:18:06,450 feedback and of course this is caught 366 00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:08,580 the attention of the wider skeptical 367 00:18:13,070 --> 00:18:11,039 community around the world and our good 368 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:13,080 friend our good friend dr. Phil Plait 369 00:18:18,529 --> 00:18:15,090 was particularly chuffed about all this 370 00:18:21,470 --> 00:18:18,539 and wrote a wonderful blog piece yeah he 371 00:18:23,749 --> 00:18:21,480 did oh it was some on Twitter following 372 00:18:26,690 --> 00:18:23,759 the whole thing when I saw him tweeting 373 00:18:29,090 --> 00:18:26,700 about something else so I thought I'd 374 00:18:30,970 --> 00:18:29,100 you know take the opportunity to direct 375 00:18:35,779 --> 00:18:30,980 him to the stop a villain and woodford 376 00:18:37,549 --> 00:18:35,789 double F hashtags and and he disappeared 377 00:18:43,009 --> 00:18:37,559 for about 15 minutes and then came back 378 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:43,019 with his head exploding so that's 379 00:18:46,730 --> 00:18:44,730 fantastic and of course not only 380 00:18:49,489 --> 00:18:46,740 internationally but maybe more 381 00:18:53,539 --> 00:18:49,499 importantly are here in Australia made 382 00:18:56,029 --> 00:18:53,549 the the newspapers and the internet just 383 00:18:58,759 --> 00:18:56,039 went into meltdown as they say so 384 00:19:00,739 --> 00:18:58,769 despite what Meryl would say all thanks 385 00:19:04,419 --> 00:19:00,749 for the advertising and all the rest of 386 00:19:07,220 --> 00:19:04,429 it it was undoubtedly a really good 387 00:19:10,190 --> 00:19:07,230 publicity victory and moral victory i 388 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:10,200 would say for for outside the size of 389 00:19:15,169 --> 00:19:12,450 science and reason science and reason 390 00:19:17,539 --> 00:19:15,179 and medicine for headings like yeah i 391 00:19:18,889 --> 00:19:17,549 mean i think she said that because she 392 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:18,899 was where she was and she didn't really 393 00:19:22,140 --> 00:19:19,810 know what was happening 394 00:19:26,370 --> 00:19:22,150 line at the time because it wasn't just 395 00:19:29,220 --> 00:19:26,380 the the plane in the sky we it was a 396 00:19:32,250 --> 00:19:29,230 coordinated effort of bloggers and 397 00:19:34,950 --> 00:19:32,260 tweeters and we basically just occupied 398 00:19:39,390 --> 00:19:34,960 the net for a couple of hours with this 399 00:19:41,580 --> 00:19:39,400 and so that there was a lot of stuff 400 00:19:43,590 --> 00:19:41,590 happening online that she was clueless 401 00:19:46,350 --> 00:19:43,600 about until she got home i thinkin and 402 00:19:48,570 --> 00:19:46,360 you know found out what really was going 403 00:19:51,930 --> 00:19:48,580 on and today she's been very terse with 404 00:19:55,890 --> 00:19:51,940 a lot of people on her blog and on her 405 00:19:58,980 --> 00:19:55,900 group so she's not been happy well 406 00:20:01,430 --> 00:19:58,990 that's just that's such a video so sorry 407 00:20:03,630 --> 00:20:01,440 to hear that my heart pubs custody I 408 00:20:07,890 --> 00:20:03,640 tell you what's very interesting too 409 00:20:12,210 --> 00:20:07,900 because the the hashtag is now the 410 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:12,220 hashtag stop avn you know that that's 411 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:13,650 the hashtag that everyone's been 412 00:20:18,510 --> 00:20:17,290 tweeting under was getting such a lot of 413 00:20:19,710 --> 00:20:18,520 attention it brought out a few 414 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:19,720 interesting characters out of the 415 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:21,610 woodwork should we say including 416 00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:24,490 homeopathy plus yep fran sheffield 417 00:20:29,010 --> 00:20:27,130 friend sheffield now these people are in 418 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:29,020 cahoots with the australian vaccination 419 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:31,210 network in fact they've run conferences 420 00:20:36,660 --> 00:20:33,970 together and homeopathy plus sell 421 00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:36,670 merrill dory dvds on their website and 422 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:39,760 homeopathy plus make absolutely no bones 423 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:42,490 about it well mirror will dodge the 424 00:20:46,100 --> 00:20:43,930 issue quite a lot and pretend to be 425 00:20:50,220 --> 00:20:46,110 pro-choice and all the rest of it yeah 426 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:50,230 homeopathy plus simply and without any 427 00:20:56,060 --> 00:20:52,810 confusion advocate the use of homeopathy 428 00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:56,070 magical fairy dust sugar water and sugar 429 00:21:01,860 --> 00:20:59,200 to vaccinate well of course they took 430 00:21:04,110 --> 00:21:01,870 bets bets they make money out of that so 431 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:04,120 yeah it's not it's not surprising at all 432 00:21:10,470 --> 00:21:07,170 and that's another thing at woodford the 433 00:21:13,290 --> 00:21:10,480 homeopathic first aid tent it's like 434 00:21:15,060 --> 00:21:13,300 homeopathic first aid homeopathic first 435 00:21:17,220 --> 00:21:15,070 aiders like some skeptics when they just 436 00:21:18,150 --> 00:21:17,230 to take the mickey there's two people 437 00:21:20,910 --> 00:21:18,160 sitting there twiddling their thumbs 438 00:21:23,670 --> 00:21:20,920 nothing to do that baffles me that they 439 00:21:25,380 --> 00:21:23,680 bother although in in in defense i guess 440 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:25,390 in defense of homeopathy it does 441 00:21:31,620 --> 00:21:27,490 actually work for two conditions ferns 442 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:31,630 and high burns and dehydration but only 443 00:21:36,470 --> 00:21:33,210 in very large doses 444 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:36,480 but don't think it's done hypoglycemia 445 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:39,450 yes sugar pills may help yes yeah I mean 446 00:21:44,690 --> 00:21:42,090 we cleave identified three real things 447 00:21:47,029 --> 00:21:44,700 that homeopathy will actually work for 448 00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:47,039 but you need a lot of it well they you I 449 00:21:51,049 --> 00:21:49,440 can't be all that bad can it i mean know 450 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:51,059 that it really does it really does sound 451 00:21:55,370 --> 00:21:53,010 like a group of skeptics got together 452 00:21:57,769 --> 00:21:55,380 and said look here's a really great gag 453 00:22:00,019 --> 00:21:57,779 will have a homeopathic first aid okay 454 00:22:01,909 --> 00:22:00,029 they won't believe it ever or there you 455 00:22:06,889 --> 00:22:01,919 go i mean the truth is stranger than 456 00:22:10,490 --> 00:22:06,899 fiction so this is it's it's a time 457 00:22:14,690 --> 00:22:10,500 actually for sav enter to have a drink 458 00:22:16,340 --> 00:22:14,700 and say yes we did well we had a good 459 00:22:19,700 --> 00:22:16,350 success here and i think you really 460 00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:19,710 really really did but it's the fight 461 00:22:25,039 --> 00:22:22,559 goes on yeah but Meryl is in like three 462 00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:25,049 four five six seven kinds of trouble of 463 00:22:30,620 --> 00:22:27,120 the nomination she doesn't even massive 464 00:22:32,750 --> 00:22:30,630 trouble I mean she's currently in court 465 00:22:35,029 --> 00:22:32,760 suing the hey Triple C which has got no 466 00:22:37,580 --> 00:22:35,039 chance of winning and I was speaking to 467 00:22:40,340 --> 00:22:37,590 a person who often represents the H 468 00:22:44,990 --> 00:22:40,350 Triple city and it's a matter of policy 469 00:22:46,970 --> 00:22:45,000 that they go for court costs so I mean 470 00:22:49,039 --> 00:22:46,980 Merrill is going to be up to her he'll 471 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:49,049 choose you know hundreds of thousands of 472 00:22:54,070 --> 00:22:50,970 dollars worth of court fees to to worry 473 00:22:56,990 --> 00:22:54,080 about as a result of that of course the 474 00:22:58,460 --> 00:22:57,000 office of litigating racing is waiting 475 00:23:02,510 --> 00:22:58,470 in the wings for the court case to 476 00:23:04,490 --> 00:23:02,520 conclude before they pounce she's under 477 00:23:07,250 --> 00:23:04,500 investigation in Western Australia for 478 00:23:09,409 --> 00:23:07,260 fundraising without a license and she's 479 00:23:12,470 --> 00:23:09,419 about to be in trouble in Queensland for 480 00:23:14,510 --> 00:23:12,480 fundraising without a license and on top 481 00:23:17,930 --> 00:23:14,520 of all that of course I think she's in 482 00:23:21,710 --> 00:23:17,940 trouble for bridges of copyright yes she 483 00:23:24,470 --> 00:23:21,720 is and I think there's a a lot of people 484 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:24,480 out there who are currently I guess 485 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:27,210 seeking advice on the matter if I can 486 00:23:33,970 --> 00:23:30,890 put it that way zone um it's it's 487 00:23:36,649 --> 00:23:33,980 she-she's she has a no idea how much 488 00:23:38,810 --> 00:23:36,659 trouble she's in I don't think will 489 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:38,820 she either doesn't know or she's 490 00:23:44,299 --> 00:23:41,970 pretending it's not happening yeah it's 491 00:23:46,210 --> 00:23:44,309 got to counter a big crunch yeah and 492 00:23:49,630 --> 00:23:46,220 prob and hopefully sooner rather 493 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:49,640 than later but it's it's I mean it 494 00:23:54,820 --> 00:23:52,970 really is good to be part of the same 495 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:54,830 sort of movement that can make things 496 00:23:59,980 --> 00:23:57,530 happen I love it when things happen 497 00:24:03,580 --> 00:23:59,990 people don't just sit back and say oh 498 00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:03,590 what a terrible situation this is active 499 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:06,710 people and collectively have really done 500 00:24:10,210 --> 00:24:08,090 something about this and it was a 501 00:24:13,450 --> 00:24:10,220 collective effort from the friends and 502 00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:13,460 supporters of the SAV n wasn't it yeah 503 00:24:18,990 --> 00:24:16,130 and I mean I that that sort of brings 504 00:24:21,580 --> 00:24:19,000 home the point of how we get our money 505 00:24:23,799 --> 00:24:21,590 because Meryl tori is convinced that 506 00:24:24,940 --> 00:24:23,809 we're back from some big organization 507 00:24:27,159 --> 00:24:24,950 and she points to the Australian 508 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:27,169 skeptics quite often I'm saying that 509 00:24:31,210 --> 00:24:28,850 weird you know the way funded by then 510 00:24:33,250 --> 00:24:31,220 and we run by then it's tired it's 511 00:24:36,159 --> 00:24:33,260 totally false where we are not a branch 512 00:24:38,350 --> 00:24:36,169 of the Australian skeptics we are God's 513 00:24:39,970 --> 00:24:38,360 without the heart apart from the the 514 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:39,980 moral support that we've been given by 515 00:24:45,010 --> 00:24:41,570 the Australian skeptics there's there's 516 00:24:47,110 --> 00:24:45,020 absolutely nothing to we've got nothing 517 00:24:50,710 --> 00:24:47,120 to do with them and they've got nothing 518 00:24:52,090 --> 00:24:50,720 to do with us we paid for the plane out 519 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:52,100 of our own pockets you know we all 520 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:54,650 chipped in and any time we we pay for 521 00:24:58,419 --> 00:24:56,690 things like the advertising in in the 522 00:25:00,760 --> 00:24:58,429 newspapers in Western Australia when she 523 00:25:02,620 --> 00:25:00,770 was over there was paid for by members 524 00:25:06,130 --> 00:25:02,630 out of their own pockets which shipped 525 00:25:10,210 --> 00:25:06,140 in and anytime we need to do something 526 00:25:13,330 --> 00:25:10,220 big we just we just clubbed it so it 527 00:25:15,100 --> 00:25:13,340 there's no with her I mean if she's 528 00:25:18,669 --> 00:25:15,110 trying to follow the money she doesn't 529 00:25:20,919 --> 00:25:18,679 have father but ago so do you think that 530 00:25:23,669 --> 00:25:20,929 she really sincerely believes that that 531 00:25:27,070 --> 00:25:23,679 people like you and me and other members 532 00:25:29,350 --> 00:25:27,080 who support what we're doing literally 533 00:25:31,330 --> 00:25:29,360 get some sort of brown paper envelopes 534 00:25:33,340 --> 00:25:31,340 every week with big farmer money or 535 00:25:35,140 --> 00:25:33,350 something like that I wonder I think she 536 00:25:37,330 --> 00:25:35,150 absolutely believes it because it plays 537 00:25:40,289 --> 00:25:37,340 right into the the kind of conspiracy 538 00:25:44,350 --> 00:25:40,299 theory thinking that she's renowned for 539 00:25:47,919 --> 00:25:44,360 we certainly see it on the on the tweets 540 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:47,929 and on the blogs and discussions the her 541 00:25:51,700 --> 00:25:49,490 followers will often say I wonder how 542 00:25:55,180 --> 00:25:51,710 much they got or get bit more big pharma 543 00:25:57,460 --> 00:25:55,190 money or she'll or things like that I it 544 00:25:59,649 --> 00:25:57,470 amazes me that big pharma have any money 545 00:25:59,930 --> 00:25:59,659 left now she has paid us all off you 546 00:26:02,269 --> 00:25:59,940 that's 547 00:26:04,539 --> 00:26:02,279 right I think it I think it comes from a 548 00:26:08,029 --> 00:26:04,549 place of them being so set in their ways 549 00:26:10,460 --> 00:26:08,039 that they just cannot believe that 550 00:26:13,850 --> 00:26:10,470 anyone would be imposing them without 551 00:26:17,029 --> 00:26:13,860 being on the payroll of a pharmaceutical 552 00:26:19,159 --> 00:26:17,039 company I don't think that they really 553 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:19,169 understand that there are a lot of 554 00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:20,850 people out there who disagree with them 555 00:26:24,590 --> 00:26:22,559 and disagree with them because they're 556 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:24,600 wrong not because they're you know we've 557 00:26:30,830 --> 00:26:27,570 been paid by anybody absolutely 558 00:26:35,690 --> 00:26:30,840 absolutely i mean you and I and many of 559 00:26:37,190 --> 00:26:35,700 us do this because well I can say we we 560 00:26:39,499 --> 00:26:37,200 believe in what we're doing but we 561 00:26:41,899 --> 00:26:39,509 believe in what we're doing for in a 562 00:26:43,519 --> 00:26:41,909 different way to the flying monkeys for 563 00:26:46,490 --> 00:26:43,529 example that's right we believe in what 564 00:26:49,399 --> 00:26:46,500 we're doing because it's been tried and 565 00:26:52,100 --> 00:26:49,409 true it's been put through the ringer of 566 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:52,110 scientific rigor and it's come out the 567 00:26:58,700 --> 00:26:54,330 other side that's that's exactly the 568 00:27:01,340 --> 00:26:58,710 point I am NOT pro vaccinations I am Pro 569 00:27:05,060 --> 00:27:01,350 science and science has consistently 570 00:27:08,529 --> 00:27:05,070 shown vaccination to be effective and 571 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:08,539 safe and so as someone who is 572 00:27:13,990 --> 00:27:11,490 science-minded I follow the evidence and 573 00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:14,000 the evidence is in favor of vaccination 574 00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:16,320 absolutely right absolutely right now as 575 00:27:21,470 --> 00:27:19,200 I said before it's been put through it's 576 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:21,480 been tested like you wouldn't believe in 577 00:27:25,730 --> 00:27:23,970 testing again and test it again and I 578 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:25,740 mean look the whole thing about 579 00:27:29,619 --> 00:27:27,330 pharmaceutical companies if the 580 00:27:32,749 --> 00:27:29,629 pharmaceutical companies were really 581 00:27:36,350 --> 00:27:32,759 only about money they wouldn't make 582 00:27:38,690 --> 00:27:36,360 vaccines it is they get far more money 583 00:27:41,899 --> 00:27:38,700 from treatment of diseases then from 584 00:27:43,879 --> 00:27:41,909 prevention and vaccines often cost 585 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:43,889 companies money especially when they 586 00:27:50,419 --> 00:27:47,970 they come up for these occasional 587 00:27:52,450 --> 00:27:50,429 pandemics that we get such as bird flu 588 00:27:54,740 --> 00:27:52,460 or swine flu where they have to quickly 589 00:27:57,590 --> 00:27:54,750 research and develop a vaccine it's 590 00:28:01,279 --> 00:27:57,600 effective and they lose so much money 591 00:28:02,570 --> 00:28:01,289 from doing that um they would make so 592 00:28:05,330 --> 00:28:02,580 much more money if they just let 593 00:28:07,519 --> 00:28:05,340 everyone get sick absolutely and when 594 00:28:09,859 --> 00:28:07,529 you think about it they would make a lot 595 00:28:11,980 --> 00:28:09,869 more money if they didn't have huge 596 00:28:14,260 --> 00:28:11,990 overheads like testing and put 597 00:28:17,169 --> 00:28:14,270 yep they could simply sell oh I don't 598 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:17,179 know homeopathy yeah they could they 599 00:28:21,460 --> 00:28:19,730 could even the professor yesterday made 600 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:21,470 a point of saying that he he's only ever 601 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:23,570 received maybe thirty thousand dollars 602 00:28:27,970 --> 00:28:25,730 over ten years from the pharmaceutical 603 00:28:30,250 --> 00:28:27,980 companies to dance ten thousand dollars 604 00:28:32,980 --> 00:28:30,260 more than I preserve yeah and he's a 605 00:28:35,890 --> 00:28:32,990 professional immunologists but I mean 606 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:35,900 which she she doesn't order the APN and 607 00:28:41,470 --> 00:28:38,570 their followers have this fuel of 608 00:28:45,010 --> 00:28:41,480 doctors and the medical community that 609 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:45,020 they are all evil yeah I and yet when 610 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:46,610 I've met doctors when I've met people 611 00:28:50,919 --> 00:28:49,010 who are in that industry they got into 612 00:28:53,380 --> 00:28:50,929 it because they want to help people you 613 00:28:55,150 --> 00:28:53,390 know they see people sick and they want 614 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:55,160 to do something about it and you're only 615 00:28:59,919 --> 00:28:56,570 saying that because you're part of the 616 00:29:03,870 --> 00:28:59,929 concise yep yep totally and a second I 617 00:29:06,610 --> 00:29:03,880 just pop my brown paper bag just arrived 618 00:29:08,890 --> 00:29:06,620 okay keeps on the side for me look at we 619 00:29:11,860 --> 00:29:08,900 have to also we have to also mention 620 00:29:15,669 --> 00:29:11,870 some other people who of course were 621 00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:15,679 instrumental yes and it was a Robin Hill 622 00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:17,840 Ian who organized the fight Robin 623 00:29:23,799 --> 00:29:21,200 Hillier gear he researched it as a 624 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:23,809 possibility and then asked us whether 625 00:29:29,530 --> 00:29:26,450 we'd been up for that and of course s 626 00:29:31,690 --> 00:29:29,540 avian has a bit of a a cheeky side and 627 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:31,700 it was just right up our alley so of 628 00:29:36,700 --> 00:29:34,970 course we we we said yes we'd love to so 629 00:29:40,090 --> 00:29:36,710 he was he was basically the one who 630 00:29:42,460 --> 00:29:40,100 researched it took up the collection and 631 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:42,470 they booked it and made sure it was all 632 00:29:48,340 --> 00:29:45,050 oh so he was the one that was real that 633 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:48,350 really spearheaded this and everything 634 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:51,130 that happened online at the same time 635 00:29:55,330 --> 00:29:53,450 kind of worked out in the last couple of 636 00:29:57,340 --> 00:29:55,340 days before it happened wasn't moving 637 00:30:00,400 --> 00:29:57,350 heart of it it's oh so Robin Hill he had 638 00:30:03,940 --> 00:30:00,410 really um was was the man behind her the 639 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:03,950 show so well hats off to Robin and of 640 00:30:09,460 --> 00:30:06,170 course another name that I've been asked 641 00:30:12,850 --> 00:30:09,470 to mention for the tireless press work 642 00:30:17,470 --> 00:30:12,860 would be chris stevenson yes she has 643 00:30:19,930 --> 00:30:17,480 been tremendous over these past few 644 00:30:22,810 --> 00:30:19,940 weeks really and especially in the 645 00:30:24,490 --> 00:30:22,820 lead-up to the Woodford Folk Festival 646 00:30:25,629 --> 00:30:24,500 she has been the one that has been at 647 00:30:27,849 --> 00:30:25,639 the forefront of the 648 00:30:30,819 --> 00:30:27,859 out of our media campaign given that 649 00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:30,829 she's a local up there she really did 650 00:30:35,109 --> 00:30:32,809 step up to the mark so she's been great 651 00:30:37,449 --> 00:30:35,119 and she's a lovely writer in her own 652 00:30:39,999 --> 00:30:37,459 right if nothing else on this issue read 653 00:30:41,799 --> 00:30:40,009 read a three-part tragedy story in I 654 00:30:44,430 --> 00:30:41,809 think it's Mamma Mia yeah absolutely 655 00:30:48,310 --> 00:30:44,440 beautiful words yeah she's she's an 656 00:30:51,009 --> 00:30:48,320 extremely good writer and and I I'd 657 00:30:55,029 --> 00:30:51,019 recommend anyone to to get on and read 658 00:30:57,159 --> 00:30:55,039 Chris's stuff well what can i say i'm so 659 00:30:59,799 --> 00:30:57,169 pleased to be part of as I said before 660 00:31:02,079 --> 00:30:59,809 part of this whole side of things that 661 00:31:05,289 --> 00:31:02,089 can really get things done now before we 662 00:31:09,819 --> 00:31:05,299 wind up Phil I think you want to give a 663 00:31:13,359 --> 00:31:09,829 plug for your pub I aurea skeptics in 664 00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:13,369 the pub yes yes normally the first 665 00:31:17,789 --> 00:31:15,049 Tuesday of every month that the the 666 00:31:21,489 --> 00:31:17,799 plane at southbank here in Brisbane 667 00:31:25,389 --> 00:31:21,499 anyone's welcome to come along skeptics 668 00:31:26,649 --> 00:31:25,399 atheists theists humanists everybody we 669 00:31:29,919 --> 00:31:26,659 just like to sit around have a bit of a 670 00:31:32,949 --> 00:31:29,929 chat it's all very informal you can find 671 00:31:36,069 --> 00:31:32,959 us on facebook or at brisbane city p.s 672 00:31:39,459 --> 00:31:36,079 ITP but this month we're having it on 673 00:31:42,549 --> 00:31:39,469 the 10th because of christmas ah there 674 00:31:44,589 --> 00:31:42,559 this month meaning january yes right 675 00:31:47,379 --> 00:31:44,599 which is a month the month within the 676 00:31:49,119 --> 00:31:47,389 next 30 days well actually it depends on 677 00:31:52,389 --> 00:31:49,129 when people are listening to this I hope 678 00:31:54,549 --> 00:31:52,399 to get this out in 2011 might be out in 679 00:31:56,349 --> 00:31:54,559 2012 I will see what we can do whatever 680 00:31:58,629 --> 00:31:56,359 it is it's the it's January we're 681 00:32:00,789 --> 00:31:58,639 talking about yes January 10 alright 682 00:32:03,039 --> 00:32:00,799 Brisbane people you've had the word the 683 00:32:05,769 --> 00:32:03,049 message get to there you can certainly 684 00:32:07,989 --> 00:32:05,779 find out more about skepticism and the 685 00:32:11,109 --> 00:32:07,999 work of the stop the Australian 686 00:32:14,109 --> 00:32:11,119 vaccination network run the Facebook run 687 00:32:18,069 --> 00:32:14,119 to Twitter look at the hashtag hash stop 688 00:32:20,139 --> 00:32:18,079 avn it has been going off and trending I 689 00:32:22,419 --> 00:32:20,149 noticed which is fantastic and you can 690 00:32:24,339 --> 00:32:22,429 also follow us on Twitter as well it's 691 00:32:28,389 --> 00:32:24,349 basically at a stop avian if you'd like 692 00:32:30,279 --> 00:32:28,399 to follow us there you go folks Phil and 693 00:32:33,129 --> 00:32:30,289 Daniel thanks very much for your great 694 00:32:36,190 --> 00:32:33,139 effort this has made news around the 695 00:32:37,850 --> 00:32:36,200 world and deservedly so and all power to 696 00:33:07,099 --> 00:32:37,860 you in two thousand 697 00:33:07,109 --> 00:33:12,250 the dirty disbelievers Oh 698 00:33:15,750 --> 00:33:13,840 I can hear them like any of them all 699 00:33:18,330 --> 00:33:15,760 what's going on 700 00:33:21,660 --> 00:33:18,340 mr. announcer guy on ABC local radio 701 00:33:24,570 --> 00:33:21,670 digital radio and online weekends at six 702 00:33:29,779 --> 00:33:24,580 o'clock of the dirty disbelievers the 703 00:33:33,820 --> 00:33:31,999 like the red pill and the blue pill I 704 00:33:40,509 --> 00:33:33,830 say I can hear them I can hear them or 705 00:33:51,379 --> 00:33:43,879 now it's time for dr. Rachel reports 706 00:33:52,729 --> 00:33:51,389 with dr. Rachel Dunlop here in the 707 00:33:56,299 --> 00:33:52,739 background putting on these glasses 708 00:33:59,840 --> 00:33:56,309 actually is dr. Cohen stocky you are a 709 00:34:01,279 --> 00:33:59,850 postdoctoral scientist but in the free 710 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:01,289 radical group at the heart research 711 00:34:05,719 --> 00:34:03,690 institute which is also where I work as 712 00:34:07,219 --> 00:34:05,729 a matter of fact now the reason I'm 713 00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:07,229 talking to you today is because you've 714 00:34:11,119 --> 00:34:08,730 just published some really exciting 715 00:34:13,490 --> 00:34:11,129 research which you did as part of your 716 00:34:15,710 --> 00:34:13,500 PhD in fact which you only took at the 717 00:34:19,180 --> 00:34:15,720 University of Melbourne and it's 718 00:34:21,319 --> 00:34:19,190 received a lot of media coverage so 719 00:34:23,180 --> 00:34:21,329 we're going to talk a little bit more in 720 00:34:24,770 --> 00:34:23,190 detail about that in a second but can we 721 00:34:26,510 --> 00:34:24,780 start off just by talking about heart 722 00:34:29,359 --> 00:34:26,520 disease because I guess that is the 723 00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:29,369 focus of this work that you've recently 724 00:34:34,819 --> 00:34:32,639 published so can you tell us all this 725 00:34:38,240 --> 00:34:34,829 was a little bit about the statistics 726 00:34:39,980 --> 00:34:38,250 and how serious heart disease is yeah we 727 00:34:41,869 --> 00:34:39,990 can talk about that it's actually not 728 00:34:45,889 --> 00:34:41,879 just my focus fits the focus of the 729 00:34:47,899 --> 00:34:45,899 whole Institute in general heart disease 730 00:34:50,659 --> 00:34:47,909 is the biggest killer of people in 731 00:34:52,819 --> 00:34:50,669 Australia and worldwide I think and now 732 00:34:57,650 --> 00:34:52,829 affects one in every five australians 733 00:34:59,650 --> 00:34:57,660 and its proposed and current trends 734 00:35:04,910 --> 00:34:59,660 continue it will be wanted for by the 735 00:35:06,589 --> 00:35:04,920 year 2050 I think one person in 736 00:35:09,799 --> 00:35:06,599 Australia dies every 10 minutes from 737 00:35:12,109 --> 00:35:09,809 heart disease that's quite a lot and it 738 00:35:14,990 --> 00:35:12,119 remains a singer of the largest single 739 00:35:16,539 --> 00:35:15,000 cause of mortality in Australia counts 740 00:35:18,380 --> 00:35:16,549 for thirty-four percent error and 741 00:35:21,079 --> 00:35:18,390 thirty-nine percent of male and female 742 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:21,089 deaths respectively oh let's look at 743 00:35:27,859 --> 00:35:23,490 cost everyone likes to talk about money 744 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:27,869 and it is an expensive disease yes seven 745 00:35:33,380 --> 00:35:30,450 billion australian dollars every year is 746 00:35:34,819 --> 00:35:33,390 the cost of heart disease to our health 747 00:35:36,620 --> 00:35:34,829 system yeah you said it's fifteen 748 00:35:38,430 --> 00:35:36,630 percent or in excess of seven billion 749 00:35:41,670 --> 00:35:38,440 dollars of the total allocated how 750 00:35:43,470 --> 00:35:41,680 system being in 2009 in Australia that's 751 00:35:46,140 --> 00:35:43,480 what I said which is significant isn't 752 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:46,150 it it's quite a lot of money it is so 753 00:35:49,500 --> 00:35:47,890 that kind of leads into the discovery 754 00:35:51,569 --> 00:35:49,510 that you've just published and in fact 755 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:51,579 you've patent of this as well it's 756 00:35:56,460 --> 00:35:54,010 derived from sugar right people love 757 00:35:58,500 --> 00:35:56,470 this idea of you know you can have sugar 758 00:36:00,900 --> 00:35:58,510 and it will help prevent heart disease 759 00:36:02,130 --> 00:36:00,910 because it kind of it's an oxymoron I 760 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:02,140 suppose you know we're always told 761 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:05,890 sugars bad for your heart you know but 762 00:36:10,589 --> 00:36:08,170 the thing is what we've actually done is 763 00:36:12,540 --> 00:36:10,599 we they're not real they're not sugars 764 00:36:14,970 --> 00:36:12,550 as you would eat you know a new 765 00:36:17,790 --> 00:36:14,980 breakfast cereal their their synthetic 766 00:36:20,130 --> 00:36:17,800 sugar derivatives so they don't act like 767 00:36:23,210 --> 00:36:20,140 sugars anymore but we yeah we just used 768 00:36:26,130 --> 00:36:23,220 it as a way to excite the public 769 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:26,140 convention no what is it I mean it is 770 00:36:31,349 --> 00:36:28,930 based on a carbohydrate model but the 771 00:36:33,510 --> 00:36:31,359 unique thing about your patent and 772 00:36:37,620 --> 00:36:33,520 molecule is it contains a compound 773 00:36:39,270 --> 00:36:37,630 called selenium selenium directly mops 774 00:36:41,819 --> 00:36:39,280 up or absorbs these free radicals 775 00:36:44,010 --> 00:36:41,829 doesn't yeah so basically I'll explain 776 00:36:46,620 --> 00:36:44,020 the whole concept of the project because 777 00:36:48,599 --> 00:36:46,630 that I devised originally there's been a 778 00:36:51,690 --> 00:36:48,609 lot of research in the last 50 years 779 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:51,700 about looking at selenium and this was 780 00:36:55,829 --> 00:36:53,050 ever since it was discovered that 781 00:36:57,839 --> 00:36:55,839 selenium is the active component or 782 00:37:02,010 --> 00:36:57,849 their active site of the enzyme 783 00:37:05,609 --> 00:37:02,020 glutathione peroxidase or GPX GPX is one 784 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:05,619 of the key defense mechanisms that your 785 00:37:09,690 --> 00:37:07,810 body has against free radicals so it's 786 00:37:11,220 --> 00:37:09,700 an enzyme debates that basically floats 787 00:37:14,460 --> 00:37:11,230 around in your body in your bloodstream 788 00:37:18,569 --> 00:37:14,470 and it reduces down a lot of these 789 00:37:21,030 --> 00:37:18,579 radicals and oxidants and the reason why 790 00:37:24,180 --> 00:37:21,040 selenium is so good at this is because 791 00:37:25,620 --> 00:37:24,190 of the chemical properties that it that 792 00:37:27,870 --> 00:37:25,630 it has from where it sits in the 793 00:37:29,700 --> 00:37:27,880 periodic table it's it's a metalloid so 794 00:37:31,470 --> 00:37:29,710 it has half metal characteristics in 795 00:37:33,930 --> 00:37:31,480 half non metal which means that it 796 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:33,940 contains properties are both so it can 797 00:37:37,950 --> 00:37:35,650 be incorporated into organic molecules 798 00:37:41,490 --> 00:37:37,960 as in a case of glutathione peroxidase 799 00:37:43,770 --> 00:37:41,500 but it also has the redox chemistry of a 800 00:37:45,990 --> 00:37:43,780 metal so it can change oxidation state 801 00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:46,000 really easily what it does is in a 802 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:47,710 biological system as it acts as a 803 00:37:51,290 --> 00:37:48,810 preferential 804 00:37:53,990 --> 00:37:51,300 sittin so will it will react with 805 00:37:56,330 --> 00:37:54,000 oxidants you know thousand thousand 806 00:37:59,000 --> 00:37:56,340 times faster than any other molecule and 807 00:38:00,740 --> 00:37:59,010 that's why it's so protective now the 808 00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:00,750 interesting thing about selenium is it's 809 00:38:06,410 --> 00:38:02,730 actually it's been known about for 810 00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:06,420 thousands of years and but everyone 811 00:38:10,550 --> 00:38:08,160 thought that it was a bad metal they 812 00:38:13,070 --> 00:38:10,560 thought that it was really toxic because 813 00:38:15,230 --> 00:38:13,080 back in the days of the voyages of Marco 814 00:38:16,460 --> 00:38:15,240 Polo which they when they were traveling 815 00:38:18,170 --> 00:38:16,470 they went there were some countries they 816 00:38:20,090 --> 00:38:18,180 went to and there were these certain 817 00:38:22,340 --> 00:38:20,100 types of weeds and when the horses would 818 00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:22,350 eat the weeds that grew around this 819 00:38:28,010 --> 00:38:24,510 these river banks in this country and 820 00:38:30,050 --> 00:38:28,020 their hooves would start to fall off and 821 00:38:31,430 --> 00:38:30,060 it sounds really crazy but they they 822 00:38:34,940 --> 00:38:31,440 didn't realize at the time but these 823 00:38:36,650 --> 00:38:34,950 weeds are called loco weeds and these 824 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:36,660 types of them all around the world they 825 00:38:41,390 --> 00:38:38,370 accumulate really high levels of 826 00:38:43,580 --> 00:38:41,400 selenium and to a toxic point so when 827 00:38:45,710 --> 00:38:43,590 the animals around them eat the weeds 828 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:45,720 and they they start to develop selenium 829 00:38:49,970 --> 00:38:47,690 toxicity and animals one of the key 830 00:38:51,890 --> 00:38:49,980 symptoms of that is there who start 831 00:38:55,070 --> 00:38:51,900 floppin humans your nail stuff to crack 832 00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:55,080 and fall off here falls out so they knew 833 00:38:58,820 --> 00:38:57,450 about its toxicity effects as long ago 834 00:39:00,350 --> 00:38:58,830 as that they didn't know it was selenium 835 00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:00,360 that was doing it the wonderful thing 836 00:39:04,580 --> 00:39:02,250 about selenium is firstly it's it's 837 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:04,590 metabolized by the body so it's not like 838 00:39:08,570 --> 00:39:06,330 mercury or leg where you build up you 839 00:39:11,210 --> 00:39:08,580 accumulate over time your body does 840 00:39:13,490 --> 00:39:11,220 metabolize and break it down but it can 841 00:39:15,770 --> 00:39:13,500 be toxic if you have too much I think 842 00:39:17,270 --> 00:39:15,780 the daily recommended intake is 100 843 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:17,280 micrograms a day and they keep putting 844 00:39:20,060 --> 00:39:18,810 this up and up all the time because 845 00:39:21,740 --> 00:39:20,070 they're realizing that it's more and 846 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:21,750 more important so as long as you keep 847 00:39:24,950 --> 00:39:23,490 within those limits then it's you're not 848 00:39:26,930 --> 00:39:24,960 going to have any problems and in fact 849 00:39:30,140 --> 00:39:26,940 if you don't have enough there's far 850 00:39:32,090 --> 00:39:30,150 worse side effects to having selenium 851 00:39:34,130 --> 00:39:32,100 deficiency so where do you get it from 852 00:39:36,020 --> 00:39:34,140 in general what sort of foods contain 853 00:39:38,620 --> 00:39:36,030 selenium this is interesting and I did a 854 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:38,630 lot of research about this and obviously 855 00:39:44,060 --> 00:39:41,610 all the smelly foods like because the 856 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:44,070 thing with selenium it's like sulfur in 857 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:45,450 the periodic table and if anyone's been 858 00:39:49,670 --> 00:39:47,850 to a geothermal area where you have a 859 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:49,680 lot of sulfurous compounds you know what 860 00:39:52,770 --> 00:39:51,450 I mean because you get that rancid 861 00:39:54,900 --> 00:39:52,780 rotten egg smell 862 00:39:56,910 --> 00:39:54,910 oh well as you go down that period 863 00:39:59,730 --> 00:39:56,920 selenium is like a thousand times more 864 00:40:02,640 --> 00:39:59,740 smelly than sulfur so anything any food 865 00:40:05,610 --> 00:40:02,650 that smells a lot generally got sulphur 866 00:40:09,810 --> 00:40:05,620 selenium in it garlic is your prime 867 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:09,820 example uh-huh and you know onions all 868 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:12,490 of those kind of really sort of rich 869 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:14,530 foods with a lot of smell you get up 870 00:40:19,860 --> 00:40:16,810 from meat and eggs a lot of it comes 871 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:19,870 from grain just from you know wheat 872 00:40:23,910 --> 00:40:21,970 growing in a selenium rich area is that 873 00:40:25,770 --> 00:40:23,920 because it absorbs through the rain as 874 00:40:27,090 --> 00:40:25,780 it grows dim soil exactly and there's 875 00:40:28,530 --> 00:40:27,100 some areas around the world like New 876 00:40:30,690 --> 00:40:28,540 Zealand has really low selenium levels 877 00:40:33,420 --> 00:40:30,700 and it wasn't until New Zealand actually 878 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:33,430 started importing wheat from overseas 879 00:40:39,570 --> 00:40:37,530 that the local populations you know 880 00:40:41,370 --> 00:40:39,580 general sort of health and well-being 881 00:40:43,890 --> 00:40:41,380 started improving because some of the 882 00:40:46,170 --> 00:40:43,900 first settlers found it a really big 883 00:40:47,580 --> 00:40:46,180 adjustment to have such low selenium in 884 00:40:50,970 --> 00:40:47,590 their diet and they got malnourished 885 00:40:54,030 --> 00:40:50,980 because of it the superfood though for 886 00:40:56,780 --> 00:40:54,040 selenium is Brazil nuts oh and this is 887 00:40:59,880 --> 00:40:56,790 crazy there's no other element like this 888 00:41:02,220 --> 00:40:59,890 Brazil nuts have almost 100 times more 889 00:41:04,770 --> 00:41:02,230 saline and than any other food out there 890 00:41:07,650 --> 00:41:04,780 and I did some calculations based on 891 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:07,660 your average Brazil nut and to get your 892 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:10,050 daily Sleeman take you need about five 893 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:14,530 to ten Brazil nuts that's all daily 894 00:41:20,070 --> 00:41:18,130 allowance whereas to get the same amount 895 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:20,080 of selenium from garlic you'd have to 896 00:41:23,970 --> 00:41:21,850 have a hundred two hundred cloves of 897 00:41:28,290 --> 00:41:23,980 garlic so you can take your pick really 898 00:41:31,290 --> 00:41:28,300 easy let's think about that shall we are 899 00:41:33,450 --> 00:41:31,300 you good at garlic oh you know like if 900 00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:33,460 you're Greek or Mediterranean purple 901 00:41:38,250 --> 00:41:36,250 that later SAT you but yeah I think I 902 00:41:39,540 --> 00:41:38,260 think I'll stick with Brazil nuts here's 903 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:39,550 another point this is really interesting 904 00:41:44,730 --> 00:41:42,850 and there's an episode on house we all 905 00:41:46,590 --> 00:41:44,740 like house you know house yeah yeah I 906 00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:46,600 think most of Alice's no hassle me 907 00:41:50,130 --> 00:41:48,730 Laurie where your love Hillary of course 908 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:50,140 if you don't happen so there was an 909 00:41:56,130 --> 00:41:53,170 episode on um house where you know guys 910 00:41:58,380 --> 00:41:56,140 sick here's that's falling out not well 911 00:42:00,780 --> 00:41:58,390 he's in hospital and you know they do 912 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:00,790 they lapped cancer it's that you know 913 00:42:02,510 --> 00:42:02,290 how they play that whole game of let's 914 00:42:03,980 --> 00:42:02,520 go 915 00:42:05,630 --> 00:42:03,990 through ten diseases and in the last 916 00:42:09,020 --> 00:42:05,640 five minutes the show they'll figure it 917 00:42:11,270 --> 00:42:09,030 out and what actually happened was they 918 00:42:13,460 --> 00:42:11,280 claimed that he had selenium toxicity 919 00:42:15,530 --> 00:42:13,470 because he was addicted to Brazil nuts 920 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:15,540 and I was like you know that could be 921 00:42:19,070 --> 00:42:17,610 possible and then I did the sums and 922 00:42:21,140 --> 00:42:19,080 worked out that this guy would have to 923 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:21,150 be eating about 50 to 100 Brazil nuts a 924 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:23,610 day but the key thing with selenium is 925 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:25,890 like I said it's metabolized and some of 926 00:42:31,550 --> 00:42:29,370 the ways in which it's metabolized that 927 00:42:34,610 --> 00:42:31,560 your body makes these small organic 928 00:42:36,770 --> 00:42:34,620 Selenites which are really volatile and 929 00:42:39,950 --> 00:42:36,780 they smell really really really pungent 930 00:42:42,890 --> 00:42:39,960 so if you were subjected to selenium too 931 00:42:44,420 --> 00:42:42,900 long and your body it starts building up 932 00:42:47,330 --> 00:42:44,430 and it can't metabolize it fast enough 933 00:42:50,390 --> 00:42:47,340 then your breath absolutely stinks and 934 00:42:53,990 --> 00:42:50,400 like I'm a sulfur smell or it's like 935 00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:54,000 like a rancid garlic kind of rotting 936 00:43:01,070 --> 00:42:57,930 smell and I'm saying like I mean really 937 00:43:04,070 --> 00:43:01,080 stink like I could be in the other end 938 00:43:05,390 --> 00:43:04,080 of a room and you'd smell me and that 939 00:43:07,130 --> 00:43:05,400 was one of the things because we work a 940 00:43:09,890 --> 00:43:07,140 lot with selenium and our boss we said 941 00:43:11,720 --> 00:43:09,900 if you're you know you're a part of 942 00:43:14,630 --> 00:43:11,730 start smelling can you say something 943 00:43:15,980 --> 00:43:14,640 don't it's not being rude they could 944 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:15,990 have either they just have really bad 945 00:43:21,140 --> 00:43:18,330 breath how selenium poisoning you know 946 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:21,150 and um and I was like so obviously it's 947 00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:24,210 not realistic house TV isn't real but 948 00:43:28,430 --> 00:43:26,400 didn't you like did you SMS into the TV 949 00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:28,440 show and say just test his breath in 950 00:43:33,620 --> 00:43:31,440 there I tried but do you know work you 951 00:43:34,910 --> 00:43:33,630 didn't get back to me doing I was like 952 00:43:35,750 --> 00:43:34,920 well they would have smell him a mile 953 00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:35,760 away and it would have been like banging 954 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:38,130 saline toxicity but the great thing is 955 00:43:43,550 --> 00:43:40,290 once you remove them from that from this 956 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:43,560 from the selenium the source you you can 957 00:43:48,140 --> 00:43:46,650 recover so so if people go all its toxic 958 00:43:50,750 --> 00:43:48,150 why would you put it in anything but 959 00:43:52,610 --> 00:43:50,760 it's not really it's some you know it's 960 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:52,620 far less toxic than then a lot of other 961 00:43:56,210 --> 00:43:54,570 drugs out there you know didn't didn't 962 00:43:58,010 --> 00:43:56,220 you mention to me before that you had 963 00:44:02,720 --> 00:43:58,020 problems without doing a PhD that you 964 00:44:04,310 --> 00:44:02,730 would stink i stink like you and I 965 00:44:07,340 --> 00:44:04,320 remember this because when we do these 966 00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:07,350 reactions you just selenium you see to 967 00:44:11,660 --> 00:44:08,730 win your the step where you're putting 968 00:44:14,570 --> 00:44:11,670 it into your molecule is the rancid stat 969 00:44:15,069 --> 00:44:14,580 and this smells like you wouldn't 970 00:44:17,199 --> 00:44:15,079 believe 971 00:44:19,569 --> 00:44:17,209 because it's so the thing with slim and 972 00:44:21,519 --> 00:44:19,579 sulfur is our body detects it in parts 973 00:44:24,219 --> 00:44:21,529 per billion or even parts per trillion 974 00:44:26,949 --> 00:44:24,229 for some solenoids and so the tiniest 975 00:44:29,109 --> 00:44:26,959 trace and you just it's overpowering and 976 00:44:31,690 --> 00:44:29,119 and they say oh there's another 977 00:44:34,299 --> 00:44:31,700 interesting fact if they say that if we 978 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:34,309 detected everything like we detect slim 979 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:36,170 and sulfur we would be able to smell as 980 00:44:42,729 --> 00:44:39,650 effectively as a dog Wow dogs have the 981 00:44:44,859 --> 00:44:42,739 sense of smell we have with sulfur and 982 00:44:47,229 --> 00:44:44,869 slinging so why have we evolved to smell 983 00:44:49,839 --> 00:44:47,239 sulfur not more than anything else 984 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:49,849 doesn't make sense it just it target 985 00:44:56,589 --> 00:44:52,130 cell receptors better i don't know why 986 00:44:59,559 --> 00:44:56,599 is it cuz of eggy farts i'm just a 987 00:45:02,739 --> 00:44:59,569 hypothesis I don't know you tell me so 988 00:45:04,509 --> 00:45:02,749 but there were times when and it just 989 00:45:06,489 --> 00:45:04,519 sort of gets in your hair and your 990 00:45:08,620 --> 00:45:06,499 clothes like and there were times when i 991 00:45:10,779 --> 00:45:08,630 get i was austin my PhD in Melbourne I 992 00:45:13,509 --> 00:45:10,789 come out and I get on the tram this one 993 00:45:16,539 --> 00:45:13,519 time this bunch of school kids were on 994 00:45:24,339 --> 00:45:16,549 there and make ten million ah oh it 995 00:45:27,459 --> 00:45:24,349 stinks I don't even know that cuz I so 996 00:45:29,319 --> 00:45:27,469 dissenters like and then they're like oh 997 00:45:31,299 --> 00:45:29,329 and they started moving away and they 998 00:45:33,670 --> 00:45:31,309 thought that I I don't know they thought 999 00:45:35,380 --> 00:45:33,680 I'd be needing something really rare but 1000 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:35,390 it was just a general kind of a bad 1001 00:45:40,809 --> 00:45:38,930 smell so I had good times and my PhD 1002 00:45:43,180 --> 00:45:40,819 well I actually just say I was back in 1003 00:45:45,130 --> 00:45:43,190 Melbourne the other week and I was doing 1004 00:45:47,380 --> 00:45:45,140 a large scale up synthesis to try and 1005 00:45:49,839 --> 00:45:47,390 make enough compound for our next stage 1006 00:45:52,089 --> 00:45:49,849 of animal trials and I'm glad this is a 1007 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:52,099 big big scale and I took every 1008 00:45:56,650 --> 00:45:54,410 precaution possible but I do cause one 1009 00:45:58,539 --> 00:45:56,660 neighbor evacuation though just one lad 1010 00:46:00,969 --> 00:45:58,549 just the one right and the whole floor 1011 00:46:03,370 --> 00:46:00,979 like everyone had to leave they will I 1012 00:46:07,029 --> 00:46:03,380 can't it all the offices on that floor 1013 00:46:09,819 --> 00:46:07,039 it's a rendus the smell so I feel if 1014 00:46:12,219 --> 00:46:09,829 this ever goes into a pharmaceutical 1015 00:46:13,660 --> 00:46:12,229 company I apologize to those workers I 1016 00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:13,670 was going to say because doesn't your 1017 00:46:18,370 --> 00:46:15,729 patent talk about now putting this 1018 00:46:20,079 --> 00:46:18,380 getting involved with a big farmer to 1019 00:46:22,449 --> 00:46:20,089 make it enlarge well that's what we're 1020 00:46:23,270 --> 00:46:22,459 hoping to do right so facts not what you 1021 00:46:25,670 --> 00:46:23,280 know we're done 1022 00:46:27,310 --> 00:46:25,680 outsource it I'm send it to Russia or 1023 00:46:39,849 --> 00:46:27,320 something gonna get this for right 1024 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:42,680 hey guys this is jay from the skeptics 1025 00:46:46,729 --> 00:46:44,130 guide to the universe er whoa whoa whoa 1026 00:46:48,140 --> 00:46:46,739 hold on whoa everybody knows I'm the 1027 00:46:50,059 --> 00:46:48,150 only reason to listen to the Freak Show 1028 00:46:55,910 --> 00:46:50,069 right I mean it was up to me the show 1029 00:46:58,370 --> 00:46:55,920 would start with this yeah boy well 1030 00:47:00,200 --> 00:46:58,380 Rebecca would hate that probably but I 1031 00:47:01,519 --> 00:47:00,210 mean I'd rock that listen to our show 1032 00:47:03,319 --> 00:47:01,529 and you can learn about cool stuff like 1033 00:47:05,059 --> 00:47:03,329 a technological singularity which is 1034 00:47:06,589 --> 00:47:05,069 someday when technology progresses so 1035 00:47:07,969 --> 00:47:06,599 fast that it would make the Industrial 1036 00:47:10,999 --> 00:47:07,979 Revolution look like a kid science 1037 00:47:32,470 --> 00:47:11,009 project anyway come check us out at WWDC 1038 00:47:38,570 --> 00:47:35,270 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1039 00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:38,580 zone the last 14 2011 now if you go to 1040 00:47:45,380 --> 00:47:42,570 ww skeptics on TV and look down the 1041 00:47:51,290 --> 00:47:45,390 left-hand side you can see our new 1042 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:51,300 Maynard's tam 10 fund thermometer and if 1043 00:47:54,590 --> 00:47:52,890 you have a look at that at the moment 1044 00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:54,600 you'll see that we're just over the 1045 00:48:00,350 --> 00:47:57,810 halfway point of raising the necessary 1046 00:48:03,530 --> 00:48:00,360 funds to buy maynard that plane ticket 1047 00:48:06,260 --> 00:48:03,540 to tam 10 in las vegas so he can do some 1048 00:48:09,230 --> 00:48:06,270 reporting for us and a little bit more 1049 00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:09,240 money there for accommodation and sundry 1050 00:48:13,220 --> 00:48:11,520 items and bits and pieces like that but 1051 00:48:16,610 --> 00:48:13,230 thanks to the generosity of people like 1052 00:48:22,370 --> 00:48:16,620 you we have got over the halfway point 1053 00:48:24,890 --> 00:48:22,380 in our drive our donation drive for may 1054 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:24,900 not check it out have a look and if you 1055 00:48:32,990 --> 00:48:28,170 feel so inclined please chip in can't 1056 00:48:35,210 --> 00:48:33,000 wait to get to tam 10 in july thank you 1057 00:48:39,470 --> 00:48:35,220 all for supporting the skeptic zone in 1058 00:48:45,770 --> 00:48:39,480 2011 2011 is a year i will never forget 1059 00:48:48,710 --> 00:48:45,780 because the images burned in my brain of 1060 00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:48,720 the japanese tsunami live on TV is that 1061 00:48:54,370 --> 00:48:51,770 wall of water devastated the landscape 1062 00:48:57,470 --> 00:48:54,380 you just don't forget images like that 1063 00:49:02,990 --> 00:48:57,480 let's hope that we don't see that sort 1064 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:03,000 of thing again but for now but for 2011 1065 00:49:10,890 --> 00:49:05,490 this is Richard Saunders signing off 1066 00:49:18,279 --> 00:49:13,299 you've been listening to the skeptic 1067 00:49:22,059 --> 00:49:18,289 zone visit our website at www skeptics 1068 00:49:39,130 --> 00:49:22,069 on TV the comments contacts and extra 1069 00:49:43,179 --> 00:49:39,140 video reports the show's over now wake 1070 00:49:45,489 --> 00:49:43,189 up wake up hello the show is over the 1071 00:49:50,559 --> 00:49:45,499 skeptic zones over wake up you fell 1072 00:49:52,209 --> 00:49:50,569 asleep wake up hello wait hello that 1073 00:49:54,189 --> 00:49:52,219 spread out that's better the show's over 1074 00:49:56,049 --> 00:49:54,199 sorry to disturb you the turn off your